Regarding the possibility of Tyrell as a replicant...

Let's go with the premise that Tyrell was a replicant ("Now where's the REAL Tyrell?").

Deckard asks "On you?" He says "Try her."

So in our normal cuts, Tyrell wanted to test the rep out and see how she'd do. In the notion that he was a rep, was this also a way of eluding the fact that he was a rep? Did he know? I mean, avoding detection?

But if Eldon was a rep of himself...was the rep concious of this? Or was it like Rachael, not knowing what it was, providing an interesting and ironic twist to the part about the memories that are implanted.

It was a part of the plot that got deleted because of cost. I like the idea myself a whole lot. If in fact Tyrell was a replicant, by using his own memory inplants he could in a way achieve a kind of immortality. He may even have had more Tyrell reps ready in case something happened to the "stand in" one. Tyrell was supposed to be Dead in cryogenic suspension. Syd Mead designed his entire crypt. I am sure (pretty sure anyway) that he knew of his own existance and had his entire memory downloaded. He would also have to have the reps memories downloaded into the next model as well to keep the "virtual" Tyrell going and immortal. It would also explain why he built his buildings as Pyramids. He may even be his desire for Immortality that was the genesis of his work in genetics and replicant memory technology. He had that "god image" of himself for sure. I probably shouldn't have talked so much on this as is, because I was working on a script using some of these ideas Oh well.

But if Eldon was a rep of himself...was the rep concious of this? Or was it like Rachael, not knowing what it was?

If the Tyrell rep. has ALL of Tyrell's memories, then Yes, it knows what it is. It would even remember Tyrell creating itself AND... his own death (assuming he was dead before being frozen). Which brings up another issue:

Tyrell was supposed to be Dead in cryogenic suspension. Syd Mead designed his entire script.

ridleynoir - Was Eldon frozen while still alive, perhaps? Or are we sure Syd had written him as dead? *scratches head*

Anyway, back to deleted's query...
Rachel was an experiment. Given "controlled" memories just enough so she never questions herself about her existence. She has no reason to entertain the thought of possibly being anything inhuman. (just like you and me Oh sh!t)

BTW,ridleynoir - Love your theory on the whole "pyramid,immortality" thing. Let us know when that script is ready!

Syd designed his "crypt"...not "script". The script was by Hampton Fancher. I will have to look to see which version contained it. It may have been Ridley's Idea as well. It is talked about in Future Noir by Paul M. Sammon. Tyrell was supposedly dead before being frozen. He had anticipated it and most likely had been downloading his memories daily as we would back up our hard drive. Possibly while he slept or after anything important happened. He may have even had an actual "Implant" that sent everything to the interface automaticly. In my version it will matter most which is most dramatic

andy

Well, in the version with Tyrell being frozen, Roy demands Sebastion wake him. JF says that he accidently did something with the cyrogenics that killed Tyrell, though.

Roy flips and "smears JF all over the wall".

Nice guy.

Syd designed his "crypt"...not "script".

OMG I can't believe I said that
Guess I had "script" on the brain after hearing about yours. I even quoted you wrong... Oops, my bad
*hangover*

Well, in the version with Tyrell being frozen, Roy demands Sebastion wake him. JF says that he accidently did something with the cyrogenics that killed Tyrell, though.

Roy flips and "smears JF all over the wall".

Nice guy.

Thats right...David Peoples scripted it at Ridley's request. David wanted Tyrell's Brain to be in a shark in a fish tank instead.

On Blade Runner's budget, I wonder how they would've executed that one.

I wonder why didn't you post the first post as a reply to the thread I just started. This is the kind of discussion I was aiming for...! Not envious or anything but, oh well.

I didn't remember the cryo coffin when I wrote it, though. ?Do you believe Sebastian wanted to die? I mean, he couldn't have helped it anyway but in the frozen Eldon scenario, he might have had a chance if he'd just explained it all to the reps: "You're going nowhere with this, the real guy is dead... and the rep don't know any better than he did." I like the mix of resignation and fear in Sebastian face when Roy turns to him after killing his father.

[Kipple]

"...all this is academic..."

The many possibilties, and intentions, and script re-writes are fascinating. It does open up the portals for us fan-fiction writers to incorporate in our work.

The idea was not that Tyrell was testing Rachel, he already knew she'd fail the VK. He was testing Deckard, from the moment Deckard stepped into the room. Watch the scene as Tyrell knowing Deckard is a replicant and the whole thing plays very differently.

NOW, compound that with Tyrell being a replicant and knowing he's a replicant, knowing they ALL are replicants and the deleted last narrated line of the film becomes even more relevant.

"We're the new people . . ." (Borrowed from I am legend)

I think if Tyrell's tomb would have made it into the film, it would have been a less poignant moment when Roy kills him. It would have been, to a degree, pointless.

Tyrell may also have been testing the VK machine. To see if his latest creation could actually pass for human. In the book Tyrell(Rosen) lied and told Deckard after he had ID's her as a replicant that she was human, but had little human contact growing up. So therefore the police could have killed humans that had failed the test. He wanted to use the failure of the machine as blackmail. Deckard however did figure out she was in fact a replicant by asking her one more question. The movie version of Tyrell on the other hand did have quite a bit of pride in the fact that Racheal had been so hard to ID and taken so many questions.

When I talked to Joe Turkel a few years ago, he had apprently never seen the film. He asked me if I remember the scene where Batty kills him and 'gears and things come popping out my head'. I had to tell him that part never made into the versions I saw.

I did remember (from where I can't recall) seeing another Tyrell emerging from the shadows after the first Tyrell was killed. There was some mention of him being a better chess player than that.

He confirmed that scene was shot.

Odd experience having a memory of something supposedly non-existant and the having it confirmed.

Anyway, Eldon Tyrell was a Replicant...at least during filming.

When I talked to Joe Turkel a few years ago, he had apprently never seen the film. He asked me if I remember the scene where Batty kills him and 'gears and things come popping out my head'. I had to tell him that part never made into the versions I saw.

I did remember (from where I can't recall) seeing another Tyrell emerging from the shadows after the first Tyrell was killed. There was some mention of him being a better chess player than that.

He confirmed that scene was shot.

Odd experience having a memory of something supposedly non-existant and the having it confirmed.

Anyway, Eldon Tyrell was a Replicant...at least during filming.

If true, then this should pop up on the new discs.

We'll have to wait and see.

If you can ever get out to Ca during one of the conventions, you may get to chat with him.

Look for the Los Angeles Comicbook Convention. It is usually at USC.