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What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be like?

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Post Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:41 pm

dmohrUSC wrote:Oh yeah? Well, I'd delete the entire 5-DVD Ultimate Collection, and then un-delete only the 30 second clip in Dangerous Days of Katy Haber describing what Ziggy Stardust-esque clothes Rutger Hauer wore to his BR audition. So there :wink:

OH YEAH? WELL I'D DELETE YOUR DELETE KEY.

I would re-edit the movie so that it plays backwards with the dialog running forwards and replace the music with every Star Trek movie and TV series main theme song.

Oh and I'd make a new Ford voiceover narration with his lines from Mosquito Coast, with lines like:

"It's an absolute sin to accept the decadence of obsolescence. Why do things get worse and worse? They don't have to. They could get better and better. We accept that things fall apart."

and

"I think about you when I go to the bathroom."

Yeah I know he didn't say that one but maybe Rachel could say it.
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
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Post Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:22 am

Dear deleted, many thanks for posting the single most serious-minded, staunchly academic meditation yet on the what-ifs of re-editing BR :D

Not to go too far off topic, but:

IMO, 'The Mosquito Coast' is a terrific movie with one of Harrison Ford's most underrated performances. (The screenplay was originally written for Jack Nicholson, but he wouldn't commit to spending 6+ months on location in the jungle.) I think it's a great critique of masculinity, what does it mean to be a man, etc. It's not a perfect movie by any means, but it's too bad that so many people dismissed it when it was released due to (once again, just like BR) people not receiving the standard Han Solo-Indiana Jones cookie-cutter performance from Ford. I think the Solo/Jones roles have been both a blessing and a curse for Ford's career, with movies like BR and The Mosquito Coast, etc., taking the critical and financial fall for Ford's (commendably) wanting to expand his range and develop the variety of projects he involved himself with.

In other words, thank god for home video & DVD :)
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Post Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:17 pm

Over at originaltrilogy.com a guy called zombie is preparing a Fan Edit of Blade Runner:

How about this then????

A tentative list of changes:

-Opens with the workprint title sequence, with "Blade" and "Runner" splitting out of a horizontal line in big red letters to the sound of a scraping knife. This then cuts to a 2016 Dictionary definition of Replicant. The opening sequence is edited differently, without the giant eye, intercut of Holden, or the final push-in on the window. The first shot begins earlier, tilting down from the ceiling fans. Leon also shoots Holden twice, with an extra shot of his body crashing into a table in the next room.

-Introduction of Deckard is taken from the alternate scene, opening with an unused special effects shot of the city, and then an alternate, wider angle of the crane down. There is different editing throughout--including unique pieces stolen from the workprint--and new voice-over introducing Deckard.

-Travel to the police station includes the sound from the workprint where you hear Gaff talking to Deckard in citi-speak

-Intro to the police station edited from the alternate scene, with different angles and a voice-over about Gaff.

-The meeting with Bryant taken from the workprint (slightly different editing and the correct number of replicants mentioned), with the voice-over from the theatrical cut

-Alternate scene of Deckard and Bryant reviewing the video of the replicants; this version is shorter and omits all the dialog in favor of new voice-over about Bryant's personality

-Deckard then visits Holden in the deleted hospital scene

-Deckard then travels to Tyrel's in the version taken from the alternate scene; here Deckard reviews a portfolio on all the escaped replicants, which is how we learn about them (rather than in the video monitor scene with Bryant); this includes voice-over throughout which explains the replicants (including a cool bit about Batty being in the battle of Tanhauser Gate), Gaff's relationship to Deckard, and also includes unused shots of the Spinner flying through the hades landscape

-Extra shots in the Tyrel office; in addition to an owl we also see a replicant dog

-Alternate scene of Rachels voight-kampf, done in montage with voice-over as per the alternate scene; I may break some of this up with portions of the real edit of this scene to include a question or two

-Extended scene of Gaff and Deckard searching Leon's hotel; this sequence is much different as per the alternate edit, with more "detecting", different shots, new voice-over throughout, and when Deckard and Gaff leave we discover that Leon has been hiding there the entire time.

-Alternate introduction to Batty--here there is no shots of him and his hand inside the vid-booth, instead Leon enters from an underground entrance and leads the camera to the booth in a long shot. As they walk to Chew's there is new voice-over from Deckard

-Extended scene of Deckard driving to his apartment, which also includes new voice-over

-Alternate scene of Pris meeting Sebastian; in this version she deliberately meets him, and an alternate take is used where her arm doesn't go through the window of the garbage truck. This version also includes new voice-over and a new establishing matte painting

-Alternate edit of the piano sequence. This version begins with the workprint editing, which has no unicorn dream, and features no music, only Deckard's drunk playing on the piano. We then go to the alternate scene from the DVD which has new angles and new footage as he inspects the photographs. There is voice-over throughout talking about memories, and we see Deckard looking at a photo of his ex-wife. Then the esper sequence is totally different, with new angles and the original photograph being examined (all other versions feature a re-shot version, which is why the photo of Zhora he prints out looks nothing like the monitor screenshot).

-We then go to a deleted scene. Deckard is back at the noodle bar and a guy beside him orders fish; Deckard takes one of the fish scales and realises the clue he found in Leon's bathtub could be a fish scale. There is new voice-over throughout.

-Re-edited animoid row as per the alternate scene, with new shots and new voice-over. The exterior shots of the snake pit feature alternate shots of the hockey-mask-girls, some unused workprint material, new crowd footage, and there is new voice-over throughout.

-The intro to Taffy Lewis uses a mix of a new voice-over with the original edit of the scene that includes the dialog. Theres a new scene where the bartender tells Deckard to investigate backstage. There is new voice-over during the scene where Deckard calls Rachel on the vid-phone (I have retained all the dialog as well, as per the theatrical edit).

-The scene where Deckard meets Zhora has new voice-over. I am re-editing the alternate version of this seen on the DVD so that all of the scene remains intact, as the alternate edit removes all the dialog, all of the chase and most of the dressing room scene. The chase sequence will feature unused crowd shots to replace many of the existing shots, as well as Deckard running on the tops of cars, and there will be some alternate angles in the dressing room scene.

-Zhora's death features new voice-over and a new scene where Deckard sees Rachel and meets her immediately after Zhora dies. The alcohol vendor that Deckard buys a drink from features the original music track from the workprint, and there is new voice over and new shots of Rachel picking up the gun and firing when Leon tries to kill Deckard. The ending of this is as per the wokrprint, omitting the dead body falling to the ground.

-Deckard washing his mouth out includes new footage from the deleted/alternate scene, but also new unused shots and pieces from the workprint, plus new shots from the raw dailies. The piano scene and love scene features the alternate music track of the workprint, and also the deleted love scene.

-Afterwards there is an unused special effects shot, and another scene where Deckard visits Holden again; we discover that Bryant and Gaff are watching him.

-Deleted scene: as Sebastian brings Batty to Tyrel the elevator is stopped by the building security but Sebastian overrides it. The meeting with Tyrel features unused footage and alternate angles. I have retained the full scene, and also use the wokrprints slightly different murder edit. After Batty kills Tyrel he apologizes to Sebastian, who can be heard whimpering as per the workprint. Then there is the deleted scene where Batty escapes to the elevator, overrides the security again and becomes emotionally disturbed.

-Deckard tracking down Sebastians apartment features new voice-over and new footage, but also includes the dialog in the phone call to Pris.

-The ending sequence in the Bradbury building features the soundtrack of the workprint. This includes an entirely different score, intended as a temp track, using music from James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith. The sound mix is different, for example Deckards nose cartilage crunching is much louder and Pris' screams are much more agonised. There is also different editing. For example the scene where Batty breaks Deckards hand is edited differently and also features shots of his fingers actually being broken. There is a different angle where he re-sets the bone later on, and new footage of him tending to himself in the bathroom. Batty sticking the nail in his hand is slightly different as well. After Batty drives his head through the bathroom wall there is additional lines of him taunting Deckard about being injured. The chase scene is twenty seconds longer. I have included a few new bits as well from the raw dailies, including footage of Batty on the roof and a shot of Pris covered in mice. Deckard hanging onto the beam at the end features alternate angles and editing.

-Batty's death is edited as per the alternate scene, with new voice-over, new angles, and an alternate shot of the dove being released. I have included the "its too bad she won't live..." line from the regular cut.

-Deckard finding Rachel has different editing and angles as per the workprint.

-I have used the first alternate ending from the DVD, the one with voice-over and no dialog.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The picture being used throughout is sourced from the Theatrical cut of the film. I have attempted to use the workprint sound mix whenever possible since it is so different. The workprint unfortunately has a 2.20 aspect ratio, so footage taken from that print will likely be cropped to match 2.35. There are some shots included that are taken directly from the raw dailies, without sound, so I will probably have to cheat my own mix or re-loop from the film.

There will also be additional scenes on the DVD: the alternate opening from the DVD, the second alternate ending, and Batty's other alternate death scene from the workprint.

All in all its a very different version of the film, with voice-over that largely works and emphasises the more prominent "hard boiled detective" angle of this version. I'm not certain what the running time will be, but I imagine somewhere around the 150 minute mark (contrasted with the 117 minute run-time of all the other versions).

Expect this available in February or March.


Can't wait to download this baby!!!!!!! :D :D
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Post Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:05 pm

Can I be honest?

It sounds like an OK attempt, but I found myself disagreeing with a good number of the alterations he/she plans on making.

I have my own ideas for a fan edit, actually, but since I can't edit for shit...
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:08 pm

alucard69 wrote:Over at originaltrilogy.com a guy called zombie is preparing a Fan Edit of Blade Runner


Well, hats off to this fella (seriously) for going ahead and doing it, just to see what it would look like. It sounds like a serious stab at a far-reaching fan edit of the movie. Basically, his overall idea sounds like he'll be swapping out all the alternate sequences from the Deleted Scenes montage of the Ultimate Collection, as well as the Workprint, with the corresponding footage in the Final Cut.

Interesting experiment, to be sure, but obviously it will be really lacking in many places re: the storytelling department. Swapping out the scene where Bryant and Deckard are viewing the video profiles of the replicants for the much more abbreviated version in the Ultimate Collection's Deleted Scenes makes no sense as a 'definitive re-edit' of the movie; anyone who was new to the movie would watch it, and have no idea who the replicants were, since their profiles and details are totally unmentioned in the alternate version of this scene. But I get it, the guy is doing the re-edit just to have fun and see what this alternate version looks like, so I hope he has a blast!

UPDATE: Actually (aha!), I just realized that if he swaps out the Bryant & Deckard scene @ the police station where they're viewing the replicant video profiles with the shorter alternate version of this scene, you'll still get the dossiers of the reps in the deleted scene in Gaff's spinner, with Deckard reviewing all the replicants' "case files". So, new viewers will at least have a little to go on.
Last edited by dmohrUSC on Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:08 am

alucard69 wrote:How about this then????

A tentative list of changes:

...


man, that's pretty much the Alternate and Deleted Scene section with some Workprint... :roll:
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dmohrUSC

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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:40 am

To be honest, I've never been a huge fan of the opening titles of the BR Workprint - it always seemed a little tacky and dated, they're kind of generic, and they could really belong to any Schwarzenegger action movie, like 'Predator'.

I think a better, mor stylish way to go for a fan edit of BR would be to use the "alternate" opening titles in the Deleted Scenes, with the falling drops of water - and then, instead of the opening credits in the movie proper, use the 2016 dictionary's definition of a replicant from the Workprint, which is very cool, and much closer in style to the rest of the content of the movie.
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:50 pm

dmohrUSC wrote:and then, instead of the opening credits in the movie proper, use the 2016 dictionary's definition of a replicant from the Workprint, which is very cool, and much closer in style to the rest of the content of the movie.

Which reminds me: This definition is much better than the opening crawl as we know it, now we know Ridley Scott favored it too.

So (Charles?): Why is it not in the Final Cut???
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:01 pm

Because that's what been established with the film, I guess. Plus, if you're new to the movie...

Hell, I don't actually know.
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
-Ridley Scott
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:43 am

martinland wrote: Which reminds me: This definition is much better than the opening crawl as we know it, now we know Ridley Scott favored it too. So (Charles?): Why is it not in the Final Cut???


Does Ridley Scott mention anywhere in the new Ultimate Collection DVD set that he actually preferred the 2016 dictionary definition more than the standard opening crawl? Wow...

I personally do not favor the 2016 dictionary definition more than the standard opening crawl; I think the opening crawl is absolutely beautiful, and is almost gorgeous poetry in and of itself. The last lines - "This was not called executiion. / It was called retirement." still send shivers up my spine whenever I see them - it tells you all you need to know about the unspeakably unconscionable way the replicants are viewed and treated by their society, "as slave labor in the hazardous exploration and colonization of other planets." C'mon, it's so @#$% brilliant.

I just thought that if you're making an alternate fan edit of BR, the 2016 dictionary definition would be fun to use, its style is in keeping with the rest of the movie, and it's got a dark wit to it...but would I swap it for the current opening crawl in a "definitive" version? Not in a million years.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:27 am

dmohrUSC wrote:
martinland wrote: Which reminds me: This definition is much better than the opening crawl as we know it, now we know Ridley Scott favored it too. So (Charles?): Why is it not in the Final Cut???


Does Ridley Scott mention anywhere in the new Ultimate Collection DVD set that he actually preferred the 2016 dictionary definition more than the standard opening crawl? Wow...

I'm not sure... ;)

For all I know it's a quote from Michael Deeley right in the middle of page 342 of "Future Noir" (both editions).

*Ahem*:

"The dictionary one was the one that Ridley did, and the other one was done, with ninety-nine percent certainty, by Bud Yorkin. Apparently there was some concern that audiences wouldn't understand our version after the Denver and the Dallas sneaks, so another was substituted. Compared to the original, I don't think the final one's literary attributes are that great."

There you have it - food for thought/discussion! :-)

But as we all know, Ridley Scott himself tends to change his mind... ;-)

To each his own. Tastes differ.
We have all the possibilities now... ;-)

Have a better one,
Martin
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:04 am

dmohrUSC wrote:it tells you all you need to know about the unspeakably unconscionable way the replicants are viewed and treated by their society, "as slave labor in the hazardous exploration and colonization of other planets." C'mon, it's so @#$% brilliant.


I agree...which is evident by Captain Bryant's "Skin Job" slurs.

I have to admit that I *do* like the "dictionary entry", but then, I'm a bibliophile. :wink: Both have their merits, but between the two, I'd have to go with the "replicant crawl", if only because it does help introduce the story & mood at the same time.
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Post Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:45 am

My changes are small.

(1) Start with the Final Cut
(2) Add the tracking shot of leon exiting the subway to the phone booth
(3) Revert to the US theatrical version of the violent death of Tyrell and the nail through the hand of Batty.
(4) Insert the shot of rachel sitting at the table, and Deckard looking at her longingly. I would not include all of it, as it feels a little too gratuitous (hey, check out my awesome legs!) at times, but some of it should be there. NO NARRATION.
(5) I like deckard's eyes closed for the unicorn, not open.
(6) I would leave the extended "deckard walks around the rooftop" portion of the final fight from the director's cut.
(7) One other thing, if there was any way possible, I would edit differently the scene where Leon and Batty walk to eye world. The way it is cut (and has always been cut) it makes the set seem very small for some reason. It needs to feel like it's in a different part of the city.

Joel

That's it. The final cut is nearly exactly what I would like to see.
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Post Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:51 am

mythrenegade wrote:My changes are small.

(1) Start with the Final Cut
(2) Add the tracking shot of leon exiting the subway to the phone booth
(3) Revert to the US theatrical version of the violent death of Tyrell and the nail through the hand of Batty.
(4) Insert the shot of rachel sitting at the table, and Deckard looking at her longingly. I would not include all of it, as it feels a little too gratuitous (hey, check out my awesome legs!) at times, but some of it should be there. NO NARRATION.
(5) I like deckard's eyes closed for the unicorn, not open.
(6) I would leave the extended "deckard walks around the rooftop" portion of the final fight from the director's cut.
(7) One other thing, if there was any way possible, I would edit differently the scene where Leon and Batty walk to eye world. The way it is cut (and has always been cut) it makes the set seem very small for some reason. It needs to feel like it's in a different part of the city.

Joel

That's it. The final cut is nearly exactly what I would like to see.

Why would you want to revert to the theatrical versions of the violence? And what do you mean extended walks around the roof bit from the DC?
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
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Post Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:16 pm

Ahhh...the Final Cut is such a thing of beauty. Just had to give my weekend's bit of thanks :wink: I'm really getting into the bluish-green direction that Scott & Co. took the coloring process for the FC; makes for such a gorgeous viewing.

I'm guessing that mythrenegade prefers the theatrical edit of BR's violent scenes from a less-is-more standpoint. I'm not a huge fan of movie gore in general, and am one the fence about this issue as it relates to BR's various versions. Still, noticing the differences in the 1982 Theatrical and International Cuts was one of the key elements of the legacy of BR pre-1992, and those differences mainly had to do with the different amounts of onscreen violence.

As for the "extended Deckard walks around rooftop" bit, I think mythrenegade is referring to the 5 or 10 seconds that were in previous versions but cut out for the FC, just before Deckard first runs into Batty on the rooftop. Check your earlier versions (Theatrical thru DC), there's an extra several seconds of Deckard walking in between the huge spinning windmills on the roof of the Bradbury bldg. Again, on the fence personally about this one - I love the longer shot, but as it is in the FC, it supports what Ridley Scott said in 'On the Edge of BR' about wanting to trim a bit from the end of the movie to "raise the blood" of the audience. (Not that I'm arguing for cutting any more out of BR, but I'm a little suprised that if Scott was going for "raising the blood" at the end of the FC, that he didn't also trim a few seconds out of Deckard's coming home to Rachel at the end; that scene has always had a very stately pace to me.)
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