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What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be like?

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dmohrUSC

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Post Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:57 pm

What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be like?

First off, let me say that I know this will probably be Lauzirika's least favorite of all threads on BZ :) After having worked his derriere off for the last seven years on getting the Final Cut and BR Deleted Scenes montage completed, now he gets to sit back and watch the rest of us chop up Ridley Scott's definitive version of his career masterpiece into cinematic sushi. Sigh. Such is the life of anyone who works on a movie restoration with a rabid fan base always waiting in the wings.

Before I get started on detailing what my own "dream version" of BR might look like, let me say for the record that I think the Final Cut is a PERFECT movie. Well, almost perfect. The only, single, itty-bitty thing I would change in the FC is taking out the "spinner headset audio" that is now in place during Deckard & Gaff's ride to the police station, and to the Tyrell Co. It's not a disastrous addition by any means, but I don't think it really adds much to the scenes, and (for me, at least) detracts somewhat from the majesty of Vangelis' score during those moments. But that's it, that's my only quibble with the entire Final Cut. It is a 99.999% masterpiece, and I'm celebrating that percentage of sheer masterpiece, and not losing any sleep over the ridiculously minor new additions that don't knock me out!

I realize there are BR fanatics out there who've watched the new 45-minute Deleted Scenes section in the Ultimate Collection, and would be totally fine with just slapping all of that together with the movie itself (although that wouldn't make too much sense, since so much of it consists of alternate takes, but what the hell, when you're an obsessive geek, you're an obsessive geek!) But my own "dream version" of BR would be not much longer than it is now - maybe no much longer than 3 minutes or so.

(I should also mention that although my own version of BR would be completely narration-free, that I think the finest piece of narration by Harrison Ford for BR is the "new" voiceover material found at the end of the Deleted Scenes section, with Deckard and Batty on the rooftop. Ford's voiceover here is extremely touching and unaffected and sincere - *so* much better than the same bit of voiceover in the Workprint - but personally, I still think the scene plays most beautifully without any voiceover narration.)

Additionally, for all the sections in the Deleted Scenes that I haven't added here, I've done so for good reason: so many of them are absolutely exquisite to behold, and thrilling to see from a historical lifelong-BR-enthusiast perspective -- but I personally don't feel that they would make much sense being added in to the "movie proper." I'm thinking of moments like the absolutely gorgeous tracking shot of Leon walking out of the subway up to the phone booth with Roy, and Deckard and Rachel walking together in the crowd, and Roy and Sebastian in the elevator, and the terrific exchanges between Gaff and Bryant as they watch Holden and Deckard on their office monitors (hilarious, brilliant stuff, but it almost seems like an outtake from a different movie - almost like the Coen Bros.' gangster black-comedy "Miller's Crossing.")

And yes, for you all doubters and naysayers and Frank Darabont (heh), I would absolutely, unquestionably leave the Final Cut's unicorn sequence in. HELL YES! It's the best ever. Lovelovelove it!!! (The section of Dangerous Days where Jerry Perenchio talks about not understanding Ridley Scott's and Terry Rawling's original shaping of the unicorn sequence just makes me want to slap my forehead with my hand in a resounding "oy vey.")

Following is my list of changes that I would add to/remove from the movie, in order to create my own "dream version" of BR:

1. Remove aforementioned "spinner headset audio" during travelling sequences to police station and Tyrell Co.

2. Add FX shot of Gaff's spinner flying over L.A. 2019 during section of Deleted Scenes when Deckard is talking (in voiceover) about Roy Batty's dossier profile. This shot is so unbelievably impressive, and I have no idea why it wasn't used in the original movie, unless they couldn't find a place to use it (which is possible since the scene of Deckard reviewing the replicants' dossiers was eventually deleted).

3. Add very brief section (no more than 30 seconds) of Deckard walking around Leon's hotel room, with light coming through blinds; faucet drips; Deckard holds up Leon's mattress and lets it drop; camera dollies into Deckard. Cut quickly.

4. Add two or three "new" shots from the Deleted Scenes of Deckard sitting in front of the Esper machine. (They're tough to describe in exact detail, but some of these shots are so jaw-droppingly photographed, words just fail me.)

5. Add "new" shots of Deckard jumping onto car during Zhora chase scene. I know Charles d.L. has previously described extensively on BladeZone the very good and valid reasons for why this sequence was ultimately not included intact in the Deleted Scenes (although the individual shots from the sequence show up throughout Dangerous Days); but I would try to "interlace" these shots with some of the other shots in the Zhora chase sequence, of people passing by, and the scenes of the street, etc. These shots are SO UNBELIEVABLY @#$% AMAZING, I would've broken my back trying to make them work!!! (Of course, not that Charles hasn't already most likely broken his back and a few other physical and mental regions trying to do the same thing, I'm sure :D )

6. Add a minute or so of closeups of Deckard washing his face in his sink at home, and Rachel sitting down on the chair in Deckard's living room, Deckard staring at her legs, washing his face, she gets up and walks to him, etc. (I wouldn't add the blood-soaked tissue in the nostril, that's a bit "tough guy" over-the-top for me; I'd also remove all the voiceover narration that's currently in this sequence as it exists on the Ultimate Collection's Deleted Scenes section.) The photography of Sean Young during this sequence, especially of her legs (grrr :wink: ), adds all the sexiness that the first half of the scene was previously missing; I wouldn't add any of the later, "hotter" sex scene with Deckard and Rachel, which is a little forced and too sappy-softcore for my own viewing tastes (legs around waist, ad infinitum).

7. Add the shot of Batty stepping off the elevator in the Bradbury building, with Deckard in the left foreground of the frame, as he sees Batty step off the elevator and then jolts his head back around the corner. I know this scene doesn't make much geographical sense to the blocking of the scene in question, but for god's sakes, it's SO @#$% COOL!!! I would add it in like this:
A. Deckard looking around at sound of Batty's elevator as it comes closer
B. Cut to Batty's elevator arriving (this shot was previously before shot A; I would flip-flop them, and have the shot of Pris' lifeless body be the shot just beforehand)
C. NEW SHOT: Batty in background stepping off elevator Deckard flinching around corner in foreground
D. Cut to medium shot of Batty starting to walk towards camera

8. Restore full shot of Deckard on rooftop of Bradbury, walking around between rotating fans (before Batty confronts him and he jumps across the roof), that was trimmed for the Final Cut. I understand this was probably done for reasons of pacing, but I still love the length and feel of the original shot.

9. Add quick shot only found in Workprint of Deckard arriving back home and carrying his gun and asking, "Rachel"? And then keep the rest of the scene of him discovering Rachel under the blanket exactly as it is in the Final Cut, not the Workprint, with the long tracking shot of the TVs, etc. I think the fast-to-slow combination of shots would make for a nice effect.

Now, which enterprising BladeZoner with a Final Cut Pro system handy will take these notes and create my "dream version" of BR for me, for a nominal fee*? (* I'll pay your lunch tab.) :lol:
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Post Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:27 am

Wow! Yes. I'd like to see this too. :wink:
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Planta

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Post Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:19 am

Re: What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be l

dmohrUSC wrote:I know this will probably be Lauzirika's least favorite of all threads on BZ :) After having worked his derriere off for the last seven years on getting the Final Cut and BR Deleted Scenes montage completed, now he gets to sit back and watch the rest of us chop up Ridley Scott's definitive version of his career masterpiece into cinematic sushi.


well, i'd say that by dreaming our own BR version we're not discussing what Charles has done, rather Scott's vision instead. Charles mind-boggling work can not be argued. :wink:



anyway, the only changes i'd make in my BR version of dreams (though based on the FC) would be the following:

1.
to add a quick shot of Deckard reading Replicant's dossier on the Spinner with Gaff. of course that wouldn't add nothing to our acknowledgement, but it looks so cool. also, the dossier book looks so cool, with bad quality b&w photocopies, notes and sketches all around, and with some clear acrylic pages. so early '80s!

2.
to remove the shot on Deckard's open eyes in the Unicorn's scene. i'd just leave the first shot with closed eyes, as he's sleeping, then the Unicorn's dream starts, then Deckar'd eyes open, as he's wakes up. in other words, i'd remove the first shot of his open eyes just before the Unicorn's dream starts, as it's would mean he's not dreaming, but just thinking to the Unicorn. in my opinion, the Unicorn should remain a dream, not a thought of his.

3.
to add that long, slow-motion shot of Zhora running that we can see right on the Dangerous Days opening. the way she moves, her face expression of fear and anger, and that long slow-motion run look so incredibly amazing. i'd add it right after Deckard's first gun shot.

4.
the Tsing-Tao/Leon fight scene, i may be crazy but i'd leave it non-reversed (Zhora's chase > Leon fight > Tsing-Tao > Bryant). i know there would be problems with the number of Replicants left when Bryant talks to Deckard, but i think that would have been fixed somewhere, as they did in the blue-room scene. the reason i'd leave it non-reversed is that it would make way more sense like that, to me, and also because there's a shot from Dangerous Days that i love SO MUCH, that is: when Gaff brings Deckard to Bryant, we can see Rachael under the Jovan sign taking a kind of frightened glance to Deckard, and then looking elsewhere when Gaff passes by. here we can see their complicity. no one else would ever know. she's so afraid, and her face is so expressive in that shot! i love how Sean Young played that shot! i also like the shot of Deckard bringing a freightened Rachael home, walking among the crowd-packed streets.

5.
to add the Rachael legs scene (not the sex scene). of course not for the legs alone, but because that scene would not only link the I Am The Business scene to the Would You Come After Me scene WAY better, but also because the way Deckard looks at her while he's washing his blood off is so expressive, and we can get exactly what he's thinking even without the voice over. i'd just cut off the nostrill/cotton wad shot. great scene.

6.
to add the scene when Rachael takes the glass off Deckard's hand while he's sleeping on the couch. what a great scene. so quiet and intense. and we can also see a lot of Deckard's apartment in this scene.

7.
to add the alternative shot of Batty and J.F. in the elevator. i mean, the wide shot from the DD where we can see much more of the elevator.

8.
to remove the blood shots from the eye gouging scene. there are really no reasons to see it. also, by adding the blood shot, they cut some seconds of shot on Batty's incredible and non-human face expressions. i totally love that unbelievable face mimic from Hauer, no one else could ever play it as he did. those face expressions are meaning so much to the scene, as he's doing something which is totally contrary to his instinct, to kill his "father" that is. i'd leave it exactly as it's in the Theatrical Cut.

9.
to add a quick cut of the alternative shot of Roy getting back to the elevator with J.F.'s jacket and badge. so expressive scene. i'd prefer this shot because he looks freightened by what he's just done. in the Theatrical Cut scene he looks proud, rather than afraid. we also can see J.F.'s jacket in his hands in this scene. just a quick cut, leaving off the elevator badge shot.

10.
to add the alternative scene of Deckard hiding back to the corner when Batty steps off the elevator, editing it exactly like dmohrUSC said above. great shot.

11.
replace the I've Seen Things scene with the alternative shot, where we can see a wide cut on Batty's torso with the huge TDK sign on the back. and i'd leave the end of this scene exactly as it is in the Workprint, right after the dove flies away, with the wide cut on the roof and the Spinner pulling by.

i think that's all. if only i was able to do some editing myself...
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Post Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:34 am

Great, thoughtful post Planta! You make some very interesting choices, especially the new slo-mo shot of Zhora running, and including the new shot of Rachel under the Jovan sign (both amazing shots); and using the I've Seen Things sequence from the Deleted Scenes at the beginning, and the Workprint at the end. (I debated about that myself - in particular using that beautiful wide shot in the WP of the spinner rising above the rooftops - but now as it is in the FC, is my favorite version of this sequence - the moment is so poignant between the alternating closeups of Batty and Deckard, and the "new" dove shot provides the wide-angle FX "release" that the scene needs. Well, for me anyways :) )
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Post Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:22 am

One thing I noticed in The Final Cut that I'd change is during Rachel's VK test the score seems much higher in the mix than before. A small point but I found it slightly ditracting the first time I watched and I'd tone it down a bit if I could.

That being said, a couple more veiwings and it'll worm it's way into my brain and I'll love it. :D
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:30 am

dmohrUSC wrote:...in particular using that beautiful wide shot in the WP of the spinner rising above the rooftops...


that's it! :wink:



dmohrUSC wrote:...the moment is so poignant between the alternating closeups of Batty and Deckard...


that's true, actually. i'll be giving another chance to this scene for my own BR version :lol:
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:50 am

Here's what I'd do.

I'd delete the entire movie (Final Cut).

Then I would un-delete it.

Done.
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
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dmohrUSC

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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:39 am

deleted wrote:Here's what I'd do.

I'd delete the entire movie (Final Cut).

Then I would un-delete it.

Done.


Oh yeah? Well, I'd delete the entire 5-DVD Ultimate Collection, and then un-delete only the 30 second clip in Dangerous Days of Katy Haber describing what Ziggy Stardust-esque clothes Rutger Hauer wore to his BR audition. So there :wink:
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:43 am

One shot I'd want in the Final Final Cut would be the one of Batty in the phone booth. Why they didn't use that, I can't quite figure. I also think the scene of Leon emerging from the shadows, insane with anger, after Deckard and Gaff leave his hotel room is totally bad-ass and should be added back in. It makes the next scene between Leon and Roy totally make sense, where it was a bit of a nonsequitur before.

"Did you get your precious photos?"
"No"
"Why?"
"There was someone there."
"Man?"
(Leon nods head)
"Police...man?"

Another thing: I'd get Sean Young in the recording booth to loop one line of dialogue for the final scene, so that as the elevator doors close, you hear Rachael say:

"You know what I think, Rick? We were made for each other."

I love that line. I really, REALLY love that line. And it would just put the final element in there, and drive the point home of exactly what the unicorn origami means.
Yes, I really live in Los Angeles. Srsly. And yeah, life really does imitate art here. Especially now we've got those video billboards. No spinners yet. But I suppose that's next.
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:52 am

msgeek wrote:I also think the scene of Leon emerging from the shadows, insane with anger, after Deckard and Gaff leave his hotel room is totally bad-ass and should be added back in.


Well, considering Deckard is supposed to be "the best" BR, it would be hard to believe that he wouldn't discover Leon in the very apartment he is searching, especially with Gaff there as well. Unless they could have made it clear that Leon enters the apartment after they leave, not just entering the room.

I think this oddity explains the surprised look Deckard gives Gaff when he's finished overturning the bed. It appears (to me) that Deckard was reacting to a noise in the next room/nearby or something, that would have been added in later via foley. And that was, in fact, Leon hiding.

But again, a BR of Deckard's caliber would have found Leon if he was there, especially after hearing a noise like that.

I do agree with you though, Leon looked really great in that scene. And this is supposed to be the "Dream Version" of BR thread (not the Krok nitpicking thread ;) ) so why not brush up on your video editing skills (it's gotten really easy to do), and make your own! You could pretty much do all that you listed with maybe a couple days work, and have your very own Fan Edit :D
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:59 pm

I hardly think I could get Sean Young to do a quick read of the audio line I'd want to ADR at the end. :wink: However, yeah, I know how easy it is to do a fan edit. I do have a MacBook, y'know. 8)
Yes, I really live in Los Angeles. Srsly. And yeah, life really does imitate art here. Especially now we've got those video billboards. No spinners yet. But I suppose that's next.
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:57 pm

msgeek wrote:I hardly think I could get Sean Young to do a quick read of the audio line I'd want to ADR at the end. :wink: However, yeah, I know how easy it is to do a fan edit. I do have a MacBook, y'know. 8)


So extract the audio from the deleted scene where she says it, tweak it a bit (to minimize the background noise), and insert it into the movie! You could even get crafty and hold the shot of the closed elevator doors long enough for the line to play, and then cut to black as the original. Or do a fade to black. After all, it's your version.

So, once you finish your bento box, start working your personal Fan Edit! I, for one, would love to see a bunch of different "Dream Versions" of BR; yours as well as others ;)
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:02 pm

Re: What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be l

dmohrUSC wrote:The only, single, itty-bitty thing I would change in the FC is taking out the "spinner headset audio" that is now in place during Deckard & Gaff's ride to the police station, and to the Tyrell Co. It's not a disastrous addition by any means, but I don't think it really adds much to the scenes, and (for me, at least) detracts somewhat from the majesty of Vangelis' score during those moments.


Does the headset audio occur in all of the channels? Perhaps you could slightly remix the channels that contain it (either through your receiver or via a rip & software)?
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Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: What would YOUR own "dream version" of BR be l

Krokodyle wrote:
dmohrUSC wrote:The only, single, itty-bitty thing I would change in the FC is taking out the "spinner headset audio" that is now in place during Deckard & Gaff's ride to the police station, and to the Tyrell Co. It's not a disastrous addition by any means, but I don't think it really adds much to the scenes, and (for me, at least) detracts somewhat from the majesty of Vangelis' score during those moments.


Does the headset audio occur in all of the channels? Perhaps you could slightly remix the channels that contain it (either through your receiver or via a rip & software)?


Thanks for the suggestion, Krokodyle...if I had the mother of all home editing systems, I would just swap out the audio during these sequences in the FC with the audio tracks in the DC; it seems to me that they both must be exactly the same amount of time in length, right down to the single frame of video.

One step closer to a dream version... :)
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Post Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:03 pm

msgeek wrote:Another thing: I'd get Sean Young in the recording booth to loop one line of dialogue for the final scene, so that as the elevator doors close, you hear Rachael say:

"You know what I think, Rick? We were made for each other."


You know, I prefer Deckard as human (guess which version is my favorite), but I agree that line was perfect for the replicant angle. Still, it was a combination of those words, the music and Ford's expression when she says it.

But you could do it like this - cue the music (that plays in the deleted scene) over the whole final sequence, keep it when there is a cut to black after the elevator shuts. Have the line, kill the music, cue ending theme, roll credits. Would that work?
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