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Holden Strangeness

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gordo

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:07 pm

Holden Strangeness

Two strange things about Holden's moments in the workprint (disc 5)
1) when he gets shot by Leon the hole in his back, as he lies face down on the keyboard, really smokes. It really appears that his innards are mechanical. Is he a replicant?
2) As he lies face down on the keyboard the overhead fan is so low over his head that it almost touches it. Weird, as there is no explanation as to why the ceiling fan would drop down to desktop height.

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Kipple

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:03 pm

It is my understanding that the wires are from the dropped overhead/ceiling fan.

The fan dropped as a result of the blast from Leon's gun. Holden went through a wall/partition.
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Krokodyle

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:59 pm

Re: Holden Strangeness

gordo wrote:Two strange things about Holden's moments in the workprint (disc 5)
1) when he gets shot by Leon the hole in his back, as he lies face down on the keyboard, really smokes. It really appears that his innards are mechanical. Is he a replicant?


That's an interesting observation/speculation, one that I never considered.

Hmmmm....

Added: upon searching around the other areas, I noticed other threads regarding this subject. Certainly interesting to consider!
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Merc

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:13 pm

I suppose that could be possible (the mechanical innards would make him an older model though, wouldn't it?). I just assumed the smoking was part of the effect of the weapon Leon used on him.
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Krokodyle

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:29 pm

Merc wrote:I suppose that could be possible (the mechanical innards would make him an older model though, wouldn't it?).


Assuming he was a rep, I think he'd have to be an older model, as it seems (my interpretation anyway) that Holden was part of/associated with the Police force for a while. Since Nexus 6 was so surprising to Chew and Sebastian (like they hadn't seen any completed N6 models--either from the rep-earth ban or not being associated with anything more than a specific aspect of the rep's construction), it'd be unlikely that Holden would be even one model number earlier...Police departments rarely get state-of-the-art equipment...so maybe he was a few models back.

Merc wrote:I just assumed the smoking was part of the effect of the weapon Leon used on him.


So did I, but...who knows? :wink:

In any case, this thread seems to better fit into the "Deckard - Replicant or Human" Forum...
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TechFalcon

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Post Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:53 pm

I thought the gun that Leon uses was originially supposed to be some sort of disintegration pistol, where it would just vaporize what he shot (that's what that burst of purple on the first shot is supposed to be, like dark matter or something), but they didn't complete that effect. If it was meant to be something that would vaporize him, then there wouldn't be any blood, just a little smoke/steam.
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Gene Ettix

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Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:15 pm

*Just a side note*
Stunt Coordinator Gary Combs doubles for Holden in that scene. They put acid on his coat to make it smoke and it ate through and blistered his skin.
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Post Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:32 am

TechFalcon wrote:I thought the gun that Leon uses was originially supposed to be some sort of disintegration pistol, where it would just vaporize what he shot (that's what that burst of purple on the first shot is supposed to be, like dark matter or something), but they didn't complete that effect. If it was meant to be something that would vaporize him, then there wouldn't be any blood, just a little smoke/steam.

The idea was it was supposed to be a black hole gun that would suck matter in when it impacted, but that was dropped.
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protectadeck

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Post Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:01 am

:shock: What if every one in the movie is a replicant and their all in denial in their pride and hypocricy? (just a thought :idea: )
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Post Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm

protectadeck wrote::shock: What if every one in the movie is a replicant and their all in denial in their pride and hypocrisy? (just a thought :idea: )

:/

Then I don't think we'd have anyone who could really appreciate cake anymore.
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Deckard

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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:30 am

IF Holden were a Replicant, and Deckard was also a Replicant and didn't know Holden was one, the whole deleted HOSPITAL SCENE could have been a carefully orchestrated scenario by Gaff and Bryant to bring Deckard back on the job.

If the timing of Deckard's visit was such that he had already been gone from the BR Unit, and was not working, he goes to see Holden in the hospital, Bryant and Gaff are watching and realize Deckard isn't coming back of his own free will.

So they send Gaff out to "Arrest" him and bring him back to Bryant.

Thoughts?
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dmohrUSC

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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:48 am

That's actually a very interesting suggestion, chronologically speaking...you're saying that the Deckard-Holden hospital scene would be the very first time we see Deckard in the entire course of the movie, immediatly after Leon shoots Holden...Deckard talks to Holden in the hospital...then cut to Deckard at the sushi stand getting 'arrested' by Gaff.

Not sure that it would be entirely dramatically effective as a viewing experience...but it'd definitely be a fun experiment to try out :)
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Deckard

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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:43 am

dmohrUSC wrote:That's actually a very interesting suggestion, chronologically speaking...you're saying that the Deckard-Holden hospital scene would be the very first time we see Deckard in the entire course of the movie, immediatly after Leon shoots Holden...Deckard talks to Holden in the hospital...then cut to Deckard at the sushi stand getting 'arrested' by Gaff.

Not sure that it would be entirely dramatically effective as a viewing experience...but it'd definitely be a fun experiment to try out :)


Yes. Chronologically, that's what I had in mind. It doesn't have the low-key, yet dramatic entrance that Scott wanted for Deckard, so it ended up on the cutting room floor.
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dmohrUSC

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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:02 am

Well, if you look at the original BR screenplays, this scene originally occurred after the scene of Deckard getting arrested by Gaff. That's how everyone has always thought of it, including (I assume) Ridley Scott. This is the first suggestion I've heard of, of having it occur before the scene of Deckard at the sushi stand, and it's an interesting one!
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Deckard

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Post Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:08 am

It would also change the way you looked at Bryant . . . and the way he looks at Deckard as the two review holden's VK interview with Leon and the replicant files.

It almost makes him watching Deckard for his reaction to the idea of the emotion implants.

Kind of interesting. It changes the dynamics of the scenes that follow.
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