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ghost of 82

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:50 pm

I agree it would have been a highlight to see Vangelis interviewed, but he is such a media-shy man it was inevitable really. Would like to know if Charles tried to organise it though.

While on the subject of Vangelis, would you believe that the gorgeous Opening Titles are STILL missing from the upcoming 3-CD edition of the OST? The mind boggles.
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Charles de Lauzirika

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:58 pm

ghost of 82 wrote:I agree it would have been a highlight to see Vangelis interviewed, but he is such a media-shy man it was inevitable really. Would like to know if Charles tried to organise it though.


Are you kidding? We interviewed the gaffer and the key grip! You think I wouldn't try to interview Vangelis? :)

I began talking to his people back in 2001 about this project. We spent months trying to schedule him but ultimately he declined. A shame, really.
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ghost of 82

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:20 pm

Sorry Charles, should have had more faith in you! :)

Was it ever considered to do an isolated music track on the DVD release?
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Mr.Origami

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:35 pm

Charles de Lauzirika wrote:
ghost of 82 wrote:I agree it would have been a highlight to see Vangelis interviewed, but he is such a media-shy man it was inevitable really. Would like to know if Charles tried to organise it though.


Are you kidding? We interviewed the gaffer and the key grip! You think I wouldn't try to interview Vangelis? :)

I began talking to his people back in 2001 about this project. We spent months trying to schedule him but ultimately he declined. A shame, really.


I cannot still realize why Vangelis didn't accept to say at least two words about the movie that, along with Chariots of Fire and 1492: Conquest of Paradise, contributed to wide his reputation and success as a movie composer and musician. Every time I mention Blade Runner to someone, Vangelis is the first name that comes out in his memory (even a famous jazz musician who hates electronic music said me that the Blade Runner's soundtrack is the only electronic composition he really considers music!). When I noticed out that Vangelis made an interview for the Alexander extra dvd I was almost sure he was going to do the same for this defintive Blade Runner documentary!
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dmohrUSC

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:23 pm

Sheesh...Vangelis' "thanks" re: the Alexander DVD and his "thanks, but no thanks" re: the BR Ultimate Collection is a little like Tarantino's not doing any audio commentary for the deluxe 'Pulp Fiction' DVD, but doing it up and down for the 'Jackie Brown' DVD (apologies for any questionable visuals there).
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ghost of 82

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:28 pm

Back in '82 they had the line 'Available on Polydor records and tapes' for the soundtrack on the BR end-credits, every week I would look in town in the record shops for it, for months. Every week. It's funny when I think back to it, those days, it really bugged me. Every week I thought I might be lucky, browsing the lp racks in the Vangelis and Soundtrack sections, that I would see it. Eventually I read in a magazine that it would not be released, regardless of what the end-title crawl stated. The reason why Vangelis didn't release the soundtrack back then (he pulled it at the last minute) has always been a mystery.

Something obviously went on, some argument or something. We'll likely never know. But the history that Vangelis has with the film may have something to do with his non-involvement with the DVD project, but again, we'll never know. Shame he couldn't use the opportunity to set the record straight. It's the best score for any film, ever, in my opinion. Haunting, music that shares the soul of the film. Its a character of the film as much as Deckard or Batty, just as the city is.
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dmohrUSC

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:48 pm

Spot-on commentary, ghost of 82. I feel pretty much the same way about everything you said - although I can't go so far to say Vangelis' score is my own pick for the greatest movie score of all time, I'd definitely put it down as one of the 50 most important scores ever - it just broke so much new ground, and is still being imitated to this day (with generally far less compelling results).

But no question, BR's score inarguably puts Vangelis right up there in movie history with Bernard Herrmann, Ennio Morricone, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, Nino Rota, Angelo Badalamenti, Howard Shore - all the heavyweights & greatest greats. A shame that his legacy re: BR continues to be one of ambiguity and reticence; but as in so many other cases with similarly reclusive and/or non-outspoken artists (from J.D. Salinger to Stanley Kubrick, etc.), ultimately the lasting brilliance and beauty of the work speaks for itself.
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espergritblues

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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:17 pm

RE: Vangelis

Actually, people shouldn't think that Vangelis is being reticent towards Blade Runner per se; instead he's pretty much 'hands off' when it comes to commenting on his music in general, whether it's a humble studio album or a high profile movie soundtrack.

Indeed, eveything he has ever said about his music very much boils down to the last paragraph of the liner notes to his 1988 album Direct:

Vangelis tends to avoid discussion as to the mechanics of how his music is created, simply stating, "I function as a channel through which music emerges from the choas of noise."


I've been a life-long Vangelis fan: trust me, even if Charles had been able to interview him his comments wouldn't have been any more expansive than that. I suspect, also, that his approach to Blade Runner was no different than that which he employed to the literally dozens of other movie soundtracks that he's composed. As such, he no doubt felt he didn't have anything illuminating to say about the methods he utilized on Blade Runner, beyond what he hadn't already stated countless times before regarding his other movie soundtracks.

Certainly it has nothing to do with a falling out with Ridley Scott - after all, they happily worked together again ten years later on what is arguably his finest soundtrack: 1492: Conquest of Paradise. (And would have worked a third time, on White Squall, only Vangelis's schedule and other commitments prevented it.)
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dmohrUSC

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:40 am

Vangelis tends to avoid discussion as to the mechanics of how his music is created, simply stating, "I function as a channel through which music emerges from the chaos of noise."


I just drew a wonderful correlation to the aforementioned quote: it's obvious to me now that the artist known as Squarepusher (aka Tom Jenkinson) on the WARP Records label is none other than Vangelis' illegitimate son! (Hooray, it all makes sense now!)

(If you don't know Squarepusher, I recommend starting with his 'magnum opus' "Ultravisitor" album, and starting backwards from there.)

Sample some Squarepusher musical philosophy, and tell me you couldn't also hear it coming out of Vangelis' own mouth:

"I, Squarepusher, hold the view that the influence of the structural aspect of music making is in general underestimated. By structural aspect, I refer to the machinery of music making eg: acoustic and electric instruments, computers, electronic processing devices etc. Use of a musical machine is obviously accompanied by some level of insight into its construction, operation and capabilities. It is common for a musician to have an awareness of harmonic and stylistic rules which may be observed or otherwise. It seems less common to be critically aware of the structural limitations. This structural limitation is inevitable; an analogy might be to try to talk without the use of a mouth.

"This point has a particular pertinence in our present era where so many pre- fabricated electronic devices populate the landscape of contemporary music making. These devices generate ouput according to input combined with mathematically defined rules of transformation, implemented electronically. These rules thus have a direct effect on any musical activity mediated by a given machine. Of course, this is why the machine is employed - to modify sound, generate sound etc. Yet this triviality seems somewhat more significant if one considers that the manufacturers of electronic instruments are thus having a considerable influence on modern music. Indirectly, software programmers and hardware designers are taking part.

"A naive notion of creativity seems compromised if we consider that a given musical piece was at least partially dictated by the tools of its realisation. Although I emphasise that never can a musician escape the use of some sort of musical tool, there is nevertheless a choice which is always made, unwittingly or otherwise. We can choose whether to understand what rules the tool imposes on our work, or we can disregard them and leave the manufacturers as "sleeping partners"."
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deepysea

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:48 am

espergritblues wrote:I've been a life-long Vangelis fan: trust me, even if Charles had been able to interview him his comments wouldn't have been any more expansive than that.

Personally, I would have been perfectly okay with no Vangelis commentary at all, so long as he would have allowed an isolated music track (Charles, did you need Vangelis' permission for that?) or a complete, stand-alone CD release (sans dialogue, naturally).

It's funny, as I've gotten older, I've gotten much more picky about listening to music composed for films as stand-alone music; I think most film music should be seen as an organic whole with its film, like dialogue or sound effects. So I'm sympathetic to that argument. But in the case of BR, the score is so intricate and overwhelmed by sound effects and edited to pieces that it makes really lovely, revealing listening on its own.
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Charles de Lauzirika

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:57 am

deepysea wrote:I would have been perfectly okay with no Vangelis commentary at all, so long as he would have allowed an isolated music track (Charles, did you need Vangelis' permission for that?)


Absolutely. And even if we had included an isolated track, I think it still would have been a somewhat frustrating experience because in order to remain synchronous with the film, the music would have had to have been cut down to match. Consider "Blade Runner Blues" which goes on for over 10 minutes in some incarnations...there's no way to have included that in its entirety without bumping some of the cues that come immediately after it in the film.
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dmohrUSC

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:59 pm

Charles de Lauzirika wrote:...even if we had included an isolated track, I think it still would have been a somewhat frustrating experience because in order to remain synchronous with the film, the music would have had to have been cut down to match. Consider "Blade Runner Blues" which goes on for over 10 minutes in some incarnations...there's no way to have included that in its entirety without bumping some of the cues that come immediately after it in the film.


Charles, I think I can speak for the vast majority of Bladezoners on this issue, that the solution to this problem would have been to figure out the amount of time that Vangelis' music started before and ended after the scenes in the FC, and then create a separate 'Isolated Score' version of the movie, and whatever additional time you had left over between scenes, just fill that in with the most appropriate leftover/unseen rough footage of BR that's been locked in the WB vaults for the last 25 years. Trust me -- most of the folks here wouldn't have minded that ONE BIT :wink:

(But OF COURSE, I'm kidding here, people. Believe me, I know that this proposal is 1. far, far beneath Charles' level of consummate professional polish, and 2. wholly ludicrous. Just having myself a little midday chuckle is all :) )
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eccentricbeing

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:04 pm

Charles de Lauzirika wrote:
deepysea wrote:I would have been perfectly okay with no Vangelis commentary at all, so long as he would have allowed an isolated music track (Charles, did you need Vangelis' permission for that?)


Absolutely. And even if we had included an isolated track, I think it still would have been a somewhat frustrating experience because in order to remain synchronous with the film, the music would have had to have been cut down to match. Consider "Blade Runner Blues" which goes on for over 10 minutes in some incarnations...there's no way to have included that in its entirety without bumping some of the cues that come immediately after it in the film.


Is that how isolated tracks are normally done? Didn't know that. I thought they were actual soundtracks used for the final print, but then music would be separated.

Even so, that would've inspired a crap load of bootlegs.
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ridleyville

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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:09 pm

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Charles de Lauzirika

I would just like to say a very big thank you for all the hard work, care and devotion you put into the Final Cut. I don't think i said how much i enjoyed it when i saw it in Venice, i think that was down to all the excitment.
I watched the BluRay on my new full HD Plasma and Bose 5.1 sound system that i installed as soon as i new that it was going to released on that format. Seeng it again i realise how much extra content there is and i have to say the film flows beautifully and i for one feel that the job has well and truly been done. It's perfect and i am sure it will only be a matter of time before a whole new generation of movie watchers will be signing up to Bladezone. I wonder if all this will make a 2019 convention a real possibility, although it would be good to do one in 2009 just in case i don't live long enough, im 51 for christs sake. :-({|= (Sorry that was an old rant and post)
Thanks again Charles
More human than human
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Post Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:48 pm

eccentricbeing wrote:Even so, that would've inspired a crap load of bootlegs.

I can see a few, possibly, but none more than what we have now.
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
-Ridley Scott
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