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Another "I just saw the Final Cut" topic

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ridleynoir

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:11 am

I had already choked up pretty heavily when Roy was crying over Pris, so by the time the speach came I was pretty stoic.
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elbiolin

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:24 am

deleted wrote:When you said Yahoo, I assumed you meant one of the four preview clips that had been posted of the FC.

For all you nuts out there, one of the shots of him pressing a piano key is replaced by a shot of his face.


Yes. I meant those very clips.

The thing is that I prefer the DC dream scene because I like the ambiguity of it. The ambiguity in which he could or could not be a replicant.
It's easier to dream of a unicorn than remember it. Even if it were part of a dream (I'm not sure if I'm being grammatically correct)
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eccentricbeing

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:39 pm

ridleynoir wrote:I had already choked up pretty heavily when Roy was crying over Pris, so by the time the speach came I was pretty stoic.


Yeah, you really connect more with Roy in the theater than anywhere else. I guess it's because the performance is more in your face than in the television. Rutger Hauer really steals the movie.
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deleted

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:23 pm

eccentricbeing wrote:
ridleynoir wrote:I had already choked up pretty heavily when Roy was crying over Pris, so by the time the speach came I was pretty stoic.


Yeah, you really connect more with Roy in the theater than anywhere else. I guess it's because the performance is more in your face than in the television. Rutger Hauer really steals the movie.

Yes! I agree! That is EXACTLY how I feel about it.
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msgeek

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm

The secret of Blade Runner is that Roy Batty is the hero. Or at least his narrative in the movie is a heroic narrative.

It's even more obvious when you see it on the big screen.
Yes, I really live in Los Angeles. Srsly. And yeah, life really does imitate art here. Especially now we've got those video billboards. No spinners yet. But I suppose that's next.
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NMMan

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:26 pm

Exactly, and it was underscored for me when I saw the Final Cut on the big screen last week. Deckard appears to be the hero, while Roy is the hero.
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ridleynoir

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Post Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:58 pm

I don't think anybody is the "Hero". At least in the traditional sense. they are all more like real people in that sense. 'Tragic heros' and 'Anti-heroes' maybe. Deckard is however the protagonist, and Roy the Antagonist.
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dmohrUSC

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:03 am

Everybody's points are valid. But it should be noted for the record that literally tens of thousands of term papers have been written about the POV of the movie that msgeek brings up. When Deckard kills Pris at the end, and Batty asks him, "aren't you the good man?", all traditional movie morals collapse and many viewers are left wondering who's the protagonist and who's the antagonist (BR's initial box-office failings were often partly attributed to this complex moral murkiness, and not having a clear-cut protagonist for the movie's duration made lots of mainstream audiences uneasy.)

I think it all makes for great discussion, and I love the inverting of traditional movie mores throughout BR (just like throughout Clint Eastwood's 'Unforgiven', also written by David Peoples). Still, I personally have a little trouble seeing Roy as the outright "hero" of BR - squashing a man's head, no matter how evil, makes for decidedly inhumane behavior to me, unless your favorite writer is Nietzsche or you happen to be Klaus Kinski.
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starramus

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:29 am

dmohrUSC wrote: When Deckard kills Pris at the end, and Batty asks him, "aren't you the good man?", all traditional movie morals collapse and many viewers are left wondering who's the protagonist and who's the antagonist


I interpreted this as, Aren't you the better and more efficient replicant killer. That interpretation lies more in the context of the scene.
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starramus

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:38 am

dmohrUSC wrote: (BR's initial box-office failings were often partly attributed to this complex moral murkiness, and not having a clear-cut protagonist for the movie's duration made lots of mainstream audiences uneasy.)



I term this the "Misanthropic Principle". It must readily be admitted that humankind has utterly destroyed the ecology of the earth, created a new artificial slave that is tormented by the duration of its abrupt and shortened life span, obviously taken war into space, and is generally a festering and teeming cancer on the planet. I cannot for the life of me detect any 'hero" in this black and insidious species.
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starramus

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:51 am

dmohrUSC wrote: unless your favorite writer is Nietzsche


The streaking bollide of intellectualism in question?

I must refer you to the 3rd part of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" titled "On the Vision and the Riddle". Friedrich literally has all of space time and the entirety of existence under analysis in a microcosm. The physical universe created god who like a mist surrounded, pervaded, and observed with steely fingers the mother that bore it. That god was Nietzsche.

To speak ill of this ultimate god is Blasphemy! Blasphemy I say! :lol:
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dmohrUSC

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:55 am

Gee whiz, starramus. That's some pretty heavy quotin' you got going on there. Mind if I give any of it to my pals to use on their next speed-dating night out?

Interesting that you villify and excoriate all of humanity on the basis of its depiction in BR, with "no heroes," and in your next breath you hold Nietzsche, a human being who had to p*ss in the same pot that we all do, up to godlike status...

Personally, I find more honest-to-god profundity in reruns of 'Joanie Loves Chachi' than in any of Nietzsche's writings. But, y'know, that's just little ol' me.

Why not consider the agnostic humanism of the astronomer Carl Sagan, or the rational-emotional outlook of the renowned psychoanalyst Albert Ellis, as an antidote to your intellectual bombast, and consider rejoining the human race while we're still here (pre-L.A. 2019)?

Even Cormac McCarthy, when he was asked about why he wrote his post-apocalyptic masterpice 'The Road', responded, "to give thanks for what we have right now."

Yyyanyways...to each their own.
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ridleynoir

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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:10 am

what does not kill us makes us really F*%ed up (my version) :)

Isn't the protagonist the 'lead' Character, and the antagonist the one he stuggles against, good or bad? Those roles are clear, and still set for the story. 'Hero' on the other hand? They all overcome obstacles, but none are traditional "Heroes".
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Post Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:40 am

I agree that no one here is a traditional hero. The entire situation of the slave issue, with the corporation and police is so ethically entangled, it really is hard to pinpoint who clings hardest to the moral fibers.

And I just wanted to add, when Chew tries to call the guy at the front of the Eye World, there is now static coming from his little communicator. Don't remember that from other cuts.
[In reference to A Good Year] "So anyway, fuck 'em. It was a good film."
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ridleynoir

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Post Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:32 am

another review that is close to what we are talking about
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/review.php?ID=31125
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