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Deckard Spits and Roy

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Post Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:15 pm

Deckard Spits and Roy

Looking closely at the premiere and then at home on the DVD, has anyone noticed that just as Deckard falls and right before Roy grabs his hand, Deckard spits at him.
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ridleynoir

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Post Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:18 pm

I only noticed that for the first time about a month ago. I swear I notice something new everytime I watch it.
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Post Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:13 am

He's not spitting at Roy in spite. The rain is falling on him and getting in his mouth, and he just started falling to his death. It was an auto reaction.
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Post Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:58 am

Actually, it is in one of the scripts I have that he spits and tells him F-YOU. I though he might be choking on the water too untill I read it.
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Post Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:45 am

Really? I never knew that...interesting. That certainly puts a much different perspective on the scene...
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Kipple

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Post Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:47 am

I remember reading somewhere about this. It is part of the reason that Roy saves him.

If I find it, I'll post it here. Unless someone else can provide the info.
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Post Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:50 am

Ah! Finally I got all the pieces: Deckard spits at Roy. Part of the saliva gets in Roy's mouth. His taste is genetically enhanced to the extreme that he can taste DNA. Deck's tastes like his own. Thus, he decides to save his brother and exclaims: Kinship!

I can't make the animated gif of all that, though. :P

Seriously now, in the 1980 version of the shooting script nothing like the last second catch happens. Here is a transcript of the later vaersion dated February 23, 1981 - scene 126:

==================================================
EXT. SECOND ROOF - NIGHT 126

Deckard is hanging there as Batty lands not far from
Deckard's desperate hands.

Batty looks down at Deckard.

Batty grins and takes a seat only a couple of feet
from Deckard.

Deckard's bad hand lets go. He's hanging by one hand.

The street looms way below.

Deckard looks desperately into Batty's cold eyes.

Batty grins and shakes his head at the absurdity of it.

Deckard looks into that awful smile and sees no hope
there.

Batty glances down at his own hand. Spasms again.

Deckard's hand is going. He knows it's over now, he
bites the bullet of his anger. He glares at Batty as
his grip gives way.

DECKARD
Asshole!

Batty meets Deckard's angry eyes.

Deckard's hand continues to slip.

Batty is still looking at Deckard's rage, It moves the
warrior in him, you can see Batty change his opinion.

Too late! Deckard's hand goes.

Batty's hand is like lightning. He catches Deckard's
hand and holds Deckard.

Deckard is suspended above the awesome drop, not sure
why he's not falling. He opens his tightly closed eyes
and looks up.

He looks up into the stern warrior face of Batty, the
cold eyes!

Deckard hangs there and for a moment he has to consider
whether this is the continuation of a cruel game.

The Batty is hauling him up one-handed and with that
scary strength he has.

Deckard is pulled onto the roof where he lies on his
stomach gasping for breath, not moving, just feeling
something solid under him.

Batty looks at the man gasping next to him with the
cold eyes of a man looking at a fish. It is as though
Deckard is some species far below Batty on the evolu-
tionary scale.

Batty's hand cramps again.

Batty looks at it, almost with curiosity.
JUMP CUT TO:

==================================================

So, no fuck you, as far as I know, but the writers intended him giving insult in that part. Cool if the alternate takes montage shows another version of this.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Revel In Your Time --------------------------------------------------------------

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Post Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:08 pm

I reread that part in the scripts I had handy and could only find the "a**hole" line. I remember reading it somewhere and may have put two and two together. I do remember the comment about it being the reason Roy saved him, maybe in an interview with Rutger. It is possible that Ford was going to say the line, but in the moment just spit instead. Good actors when acting in the moment will change up their lines to fit a scene, their character and the emotion they are feeling better. I think it does work a lot better, that is if we had noticed it.
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Post Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:22 am

Wow - I'm surprised by all those who hadn't noticed Deckard spitting at Batty!

I always felt it was a powerful image from the first time I saw the film.

Deckard has one last, desperate curse for his (super)human adversary. It's his way of saying "you've beaten me, but I won't go out with a whimper."

I believe this action by Deckard influenced Batty to save him.
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Post Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:08 am

Kipple wrote:I remember reading somewhere about this. It is part of the reason that Roy saves him.

If I find it, I'll post it here. Unless someone else can provide the info.


I was re-reading the Empire articles last night and Ridley mentions it in his interview.
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Post Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am

Tryfan915 wrote:
Kipple wrote:I remember reading somewhere about this. It is part of the reason that Roy saves him.

If I find it, I'll post it here. Unless someone else can provide the info.


I was re-reading the Empire articles last night and Ridley mentions it in his interview.


Ah. Could you please detail? Summarize? I'd like to hear more.
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Post Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:20 am

THX1138 wrote:Ah. Could you please detail? Summarize? I'd like to hear more.


I haven't got it with me at the moment. I'll try and post it here tomorrow.

EDIT: I got that wrong. #-o :oops: It wasn't in Empire. I was also reading some stuff I'd copied from the web, but I couldn't find it in there either.

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Maybe they're........implants.
Last edited by Tryfan915 on Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kipple

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Post Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:44 am

To best illustrate my interpretation of that scene, whether it was intentional, or blossomed from the psyche, I offer this Japanese tale.

"A samurai warrior once was charged with avenging a noble's death at the hands of a rival warlord. He trained for four years, studied the warlord's habits, and planned his attack. When the day came, he stealthily approached the warlord when he was alone, and cornered him. The samurai held his katana aloft, poised to strike the final blow, when the warlord, utterly defeated, spit in the face of the samurai. The samurai sheathed his sword and walked away, rather than kill the warlord out of anger. "

Although the ethics involved in this scenario are not consistent with Roy's previous murders (Tyrell and Sebastian) it makes sense in this isolated case. At the same time, however, Roy may have been having a "Zen moment", as could be interpreted in his face seconds before him saving Deckard. That being, letting Deckard die out of anger was not his intent. As in the samurai story illustrated above, the motivation for avenging the noble's death had to be pure. By not killing the warlord, that showed the warrior's discipline and mindfulness in recognizing the presence of anger in fueling his actions, and being able to stop the action before it occurred. A graduation in ethics for Roy. An awakening.

Roy sensed Deckard's fear. Maybe his fall would prove to be the final lesson in fear. However, Deckard was not going down without a fight. Spitting is regarded as an act of contempt. Roy wanted to save face and approach this matter differently. He had to "teach" Deckard, the best he could under the circumstances, the consequences of Man's creation. Life is made to live. Not made to be enslaved and to die. Life (the Replicants) will do what it can to survive. For once Deckard was the hunted.

It would be interesting to read what lessons Deckard did learn from this. What do you think went through his mind? Looking back at this after things had settled,( in retrospect ), what do you think Deckard would say about all this? Interesting to think about.
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Caru

Post Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:30 am

wow, great post Kipple. Don't know what to say really. :oops:
Is very interesting to think about it from that point of view.
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Post Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:17 am

It also makes me think of the term "spit in the face of Death"
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