The Fall of Tyrell

[Kipple]

A few years back I wrote a poem titled "The Fall of Tyrell". It describes the scene where Eldon Tyrell is murdered by Roy Batty. Not so much the gore...but what was going through Roy's mind.

Anyways...I am in the midst of reorganizing the KippleZone website. After this passage of time...that poem really doesn't cut it. So...I thought I'd take a stab at re-writing it. I have been having a heck of a time doing just that. I even considered making it a longer poem, starting off with Roy (and Sebastian) approaching the Tyrell Building. A narrative type poem where Roy is describing what it had taken him to come just that far. So, we get a little background on his escape from Off-World, etc. We'd note his observations of the building...and riding up the elevator, and finally entering the "shrine". But...it wasn't coming out as I had liked...and it was turning into a short story. Not what I wanted.

This all got me thinking...and this is where this forum topic comes in. But, first let me say this. I have analyzed every scene of this movie. I have researched, over the years, it's variants, could-have-beens, and what-not. So, why do I struggle with this scene so?

For one 1.) It simply doesn't make sense. (I know..I know...it doesn't have to make sense...it's a movie) It's like me going to Bill Gates because I want him to extend the life of Window's XP. Even if I felt he was the only one who could extend it...it wouldn't be easy getting to him. But, that's not the topic of this particular discussion. It involves #2.

Onward... 2.) Why would he kill Tyrell? The fall of Tyrell was his lie(s).

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NOTE: All this is speculation!!!!

Reminder: It's a movie, and I'm writing about "what-ifs".

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So...in my mind, Roy knew that Tyrell was lying to him, about "...making (him) as good as he could make (him)." If Man could create such an thing as himself...they certainly would have made him to last. As stated in the movie...the Replicants would start to develop their own emotional responses. So...before that gets out of hand...give them a termination date.


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION IN THIS POST

If Tyrell had not lied...would Roy still have killed him?

Had Tyrell been more clever...could he have negotiated with Roy until he (Tyrell) was under protection (of Security)?

I'm gonna go with my gut instinct and give a brief answer quickly with the 1st thing that pops into my head:

If Tyrell had not lied...would Roy still have killed him?

I think, YES. Roy has many emotions and his temper is one of them. Hearing the truth from Tyrell would have only pissed him off all the more.

Had Tyrell been more clever...could he have negotiated with Roy until he (Tyrell) was under protection (of Security)?

I think it's POSSIBLE. As I stated somewhere on these boards before, I don't believe Roy visited Tyrell with the intention of killing him... He was searching for an extended lifespan.



Maybe my answers contradict each-other, but there ya go.

If Tyrell had not lied...would Roy still have killed him?

Im almost certain that Roy would have killed Tyrell anyway.
It seems to me that it was his plan all the time.

But, the thing that always bother me was, WHY did he have to kill Sebstian?
It was so ehum..... unnecessary!!

Had Tyrell been more clever...could he have negotiated with Roy until he (Tyrell) was under protection (of Security)?

NO! Short and concised

So...in my mind, Roy knew that Tyrell was lying to him, about "...making (him) as good as he could make (him)." If Man could create such an thing as himself...they certainly would have made him to last. As stated in the movie...the Replicants would start to develop their own emotional responses. So...before that gets out of hand...give them a termination date.

In the film as seen (in any version you like), I don't believe Tyrell was lying, as such. Taking into account that Bryant tells Deckard that the Nexus 6 have the "fail-safe device...four year lifespan" that leads me to believe that the Nexus 6 were given this limited lifespan due to either:

1) Limitation of Law

2) Self-imposed Corporate Specification (due to research)

Tyrell saying, "You were made as well as we could make you" tends to make me believe it was due to limitation of law, a regulation that a governing body imposed on Tyrell.

With this in mind, while the Nexus 6 could have been built with an unlimited lifespan, there was a necessity (or chosen limitation) of the four year lifespan and it was not reversible once encoded into a Nexus 6 Replicant's DNA. Hence, there was no deception on Tyrell's part.

If Tyrell had not lied...would Roy still have killed him?

I don't believe Roy killed Tyrell for lying. I believe Roy killed Tyrell because his emotions were emerging and unstable. Roy killed Tyrell in a tortuous manner because, like a child given "the facts of life" that he doesn't want to believe, reacts with anger and violence.

Had Tyrell been more clever...could he have negotiated with Roy until he (Tyrell) was under protection (of Security)?

Tyrell's arrogance gave Sebastian entry and I believe he knew Roy was with him. Up until the "kiss," I believe Tyrell was supremely confident in his control of the situation as "god" of the Replicants. He believed he had no reason to call for security. This what makes the scene work. If Tyrell had been anything other than a metaphorical "god" in the film, the only believeable thing would have been guards to burst in at some point.

My answers probably won't help your dilemma if you believe Tyrell lied to Batty, but I wanted another perspective brought to the table.

(Personal speculation on my part)

The real Tyrell isn't dead. Batty killed a Nexus 7 replicant made to look and act like Tyrell. The whole situation was a decoy, and Batty fell for it. However, poor JF Sebastian was unnecessary collateral damage. Batty thought he had to kill Sebastian to cover his tracks, when in reality the "Tyrell" he killed was expendable. "Killing" Tyrell was too easy, and he got away too clean. If that was the real Tyrell, wouldn't Batty be swarmed by an army of replicant guards, each as smart and as strong as him? He wouldn't escape.

If there ever is a sequel, one of the coolest ways to start it out would be a news conference where Tyrell shows up and "proves" he's himself, and explain the decoy "Tyrell" and the reports of his death being an exaggeration.

Of course, I think the best way to handle who the real Tyrell is would be to have his consciousness be living in the Tyrell Corporation network, disembodied, using replicant body doubles for his everyday face-to-face commerce. Eventually the truth would be revealed: the body of the real Tyrell is in cryonic suspension in a shrine/mausoleum/temple of the owl deep in the bowels of one of the twin Tyrell pyramids.

Self-imposed Corporate Specification (due to research)
Tyrell saying, "You were made as well as we could make you" tends to make me believe it was due to limitation of law, a regulation that a governing body imposed on Tyrell.

Okay cool, I just always saw it as a statement refering to current technology. Not as a regulation. As in Nexus5, 6, 7, whatever. "You were made as well as we could make you." (... at the time.)

Tyrell's arrogance gave Sebastian entry and I believe he knew Roy was with him.

I wholly concur! I've always felt Tyrell knew someone was with J.F. as soon as he (J.F.) gave his next move on the chess board over the intercom on the elevator. When Batty arrives inside with J.F., Tyrell doesn't look the least bit surprised. It's like he can't believe an Assassin didn't arrive sooner. And, I don't see it as he (Tyrell) is being arrogant... just, a realist. He's been expecting this visit for a while.


BTW
I thought "msgeek" made some very provacative statements, and I should have commented on them But I needed to add to "The Abyss's" thoughts first. Good stuff, people... Have @ it!

[Kipple]

Excellent response The Abyss Gazes Also. Interesting perspective.

Maybe tyrell secretly had a death wish and kind of knew this was coming ,If he knew an "intruder" was with sab. ,maybe he was like.....let's get it over with .... . A state of lonliness from the day to day ritual of his work and calculating that was finally taking it's toll.

Well, if one used the religious allegory of Tyrell being God, then perhaps, Roy's journey into finding God came at an abrupt end because he discovered that there was no God for him. Like what everyone is saying, Tyrell could've simply prevented Roy's destruction.

However, the real case is that Tyrell is a man....man is mortal and full of flaws, therefore, he created an entity that's just as mortal and faulty as he is.

He would've placed the goblet as far away him as possible, so the poison can't be in front of him....wait, er....wrong movie....

Excellent response The Abyss Gazes Also. Interesting perspective.

Thanks, Kipple. One of Blade Runner's strengths is the fact that it draws the serious viewer in due to the high degree of interpretation that can be applied - hence, the whole "Deckard is a Replicant" argument that Ridley became hell-bent in stopping.

I don't think either of us is wrong (the film is that ambiguous) but I do like shedding a different light (or shadow, if you will) to keep the conversation going.

If Tyrell was lying, what do you believe was his motivation?