BladeZone's Off World Forums

Well, I ever ask me the lacking of mention to a fact: no animal life is over Earth. Ok. You could read the book, and know some more about the lifetime in Blade Runner. But... if the fact is no real animal life is there...

...what happens with the maguey worms? Are they alive? Are mechanical? In the hi-def Final Cut version, you could see them moving in the glass...

A weird mistery!

Well, there are still a lot of birds. The birds have to eat worms. Therefore, there are still a lot of worms. So many, that they can be used in drinks.

That is my incredible shitty theory. I hope you enjoyed it.

mmmmm... Is the tears in rain dove scene really alive? Or is a mechanical one also? If the birds are mechanical... no worms are needed...

I wanna follow the original PKD story... Only human life form, no other... (IMHO is what I remember).

BR is a little different than the PKD story, although in both animals are a very rare commodity.

And I'm thinking that by that point in BR time, they're harvesting & eating things like worms, bugs, fungus, etc. on a mass scale.

Or perhaps they are artificial/fake worms? Since Deckard pulls it out of his mouth from being stuck in the back, it could be inferred that they are plastic (or whatever), and only meant as a decoration for the drink.

But my impression is that The Snakepit is a higher-end club, that Taffey can afford real worms since he can afford the artificial snake, and since Deckard's drinks has quite a few of them in there.

An interesting line of thinking. Perhaps Deckard don't wanna eat a real worm... (remember, he loves the real animal life in PKD...) And the idea of harvesting some live species, is also interesting. I don't remember any reference in the PKD book, neither in the BR script... Must read all of them in deep, to discover any evidence or not about this topic.

Well, considering that the impression is that the population of Los Angeles in 2019 is supposed to be much, much greater than it was in 1982, so would the demand for food. If "real animals" are supposed to be rare, this would mean the harvesting of plants on a massive scale. Remember Soylent Green? The food in that was (supposedly) made from "high-energy vegetable concentrates" (Soylent Red & Soylent Yellow) and "high-energy plankton" (Soylent Green). (Of course, it was later discovered that the new "Green" product was recycled cadavers, but I digress...)

So to feed the people of BR you're probably talking massive ocean harvesting of SOME type of food...it's a given that they've managed to farm some things "off planet" successfully enough to feed the colonists and space ships crews. I suppose, that given that premise, they could be bringing food back to Earth, but that seems kind of unlikely. Perhaps Earth gets specialty items from off-planet?

Lets look at the food Deckard gets at the Noodle Bar. Sure, those meaty things could be tofu or gluten based, but I'm betting it is supposed to be real unagi (eel) or whatever. (Which, if it's real, goes against the book character and his love for all animal life.) In any case, foods like worms, eels, shrimps, grubs, etc. could feasibly be harvested by a vendor down the street. They don't really need super-specialized growing mediums, nor large growing tanks. And in reality, bugs, grubs, etc. are eaten this very day all over the world, one would think it would be only a matter of time before it became (or, in reality, becomes) a part of American culture--either by constant immigration/relocation or (more likely in BRs case) the need for readily available cheap protein source.

But to be honest, I don't think that the premise of 'no real animal life' being applied to these "lower" forms of life. I always assumed that it meant "higher" forms of life, like mammals, reptiles, and similar (at least in the movie...it's been a while since I read the book). Forms of life that required long gestation periods, or large amounts of food, or large spaces to survive...these all perished or are rare as hell.

But then, if you are trying to apply the statements in the book to images in the movie, it's simply not going to work. They really are two different animals.

Joining the two paralel stories is a brain game, not more! Nice, lovely dissertation about this topic! I could agree with you near 100%!

Thanks.

To be honest, I'm speaking of the movie, and not the PKD book itself. My copy of "Do Androids..." is in storage somewhere, so I can't access it at the moment. Plus, it's been a few years since I've read it.

The subject of animals is one of the many vague things that is left open to interpretation, either by accident or on purpose. I mean, look at the final Blade Runner script: there is NO specific mention that animals are, in fact, rare...

Leon's Interview:
Leon says he doesn't know what a tortoise is, and that he hasn't 'seen' a turtle (though he knows what a turtle is). This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't exist any longer, or even are super-rare, maybe just uncommon. Leon's been given a low grade intelligence, and he's been hauling atomic loads in outer space all his life. Unless they specifically implanted memories of seeing a turtle, he wouldn't have seen one before.


Deckard at Tyrell's:
Rachael: Do you like our owl?
Deckard: It's artificial?
Rachael: Of course it is.
Deckard: Must be expensive.
Rachael: Very.

Now this exchange could be interpreted as signifying that real animals are rare, by Rachel saying "of course it is (artifiical)". But a very reasonable interpretation is that she says "of course it is" because they are standing in the office of the world's premier robotics company. Rachel's curt answer could very well be in response to Deckard asking--in her mind--such a stupid question: Of course it's artificial you idiot, you're at the Tyrell Corporation!


Rachel's VK Test:
Deckard: Someone gives you a calfskin wallet.
Rachael: I wouldn't accept it. Also, I'd report the person who gave it to me to the police.

Now, this implies that there is something illegal about calf skin, but what exactly that is, it's never made clear.

Other questions in the test also imply that things like insects (wasp, spider) and mollusks (oysters) exist for consumption. Even dog.


Animoid Row
Abdul: My work? Not too many could afford such quality.
Deckard: How many?
Abdul: Very few.

We find that in BR's LA of 2019, there is an area that appears to deal with an extreme assortment of robotic animals. Fish, snake, birds, and more. But, like any technology, quality merchandise comes with a higher price. And just because an item like a snake seems to be expensive, don't forget that the one is question is supposed to be very high quality--and not because it's stated that snakes are unheard of.

The above market could mean that animals in general are uncommon...or maybe illegal within city limits, or state laws, etc. Or it could just be the current fad, rich people owning fancy toys like a robotic Ostrich (?).


Deckard & Zhora:
Deckard: Is this a real snake?
Zhora: Of course it's not real. Do you think I'd be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?

Now, this is interesting because it has been established that Zhora's artificial snake is reasonably expensive--and a real snake is even more. But it establishes that real pythons exist, and are in the hands of the wealthy. But exactly why are they? Are they scarce, or are they illegal?


Sebastian's Breakfast:
The most obvious example of animals being around, are the eggs. We can assume that they are chicken eggs, though they really could be some other kind of egg. But they sure do look like chicken eggs, and that would imply that chickens exist and are still laying eggs for us humans.

Now, it's very possible that eggs are very expensive, and that Sebastian gets paid very well for his job at the Tyrell Corp. So they may be luxury items, but they're still around.

Tyrell & Sebastian:
Sebastian: Bishop to King 7. Checkmate, I think.
Tyrell: Got a brainstorm, huh, Sebastian? Milk and cookies kept you awake, huh?

Again, this implies that cows still exist--if they really are mentioning cow's milk. It could be almond milk or soy milk, I suppose...but it's really implying that it's cow's milk.


Roy & the Dove
Pigeons and/or doves seem to literally infest the Bradbury Building, and at the end, Roy holds one and releases it as he finally dies. We can only assume that these are real pigeons, and not legions of robotic birds let loose on the city. The artificial owl was 'very expensive', so even a simpler model, like a dove, would surely cost a pretty penny.

------------------
Now, any of the food mentioned in BR could be artificial to begin with. They could be fake eggs at Sebastian's place. The milk could be something besides cow. Deckard's noodles could be gluten-fish. But, unless I've completely overlooked something, it's not specifically mentioned within the movie that real animals are rare, just "expensive", for whatever reasons. (I don't have the deleted scenes in front of me, so if there are specific references in regards to this subject that I've missed, please add them).

We, as the viewer, can associate Blade Runner's animal references as evidence that animals are rare in 2019, but this really is a matter of interpretation. All we are really given is that some of them are very expensive.

Which brings up another thought: if the reason for this is because they are illegal, then why are they? Did the Tyrell Corporation itself get legislation passed to ban most animals, so that if you want one, you'd have to buy their replicas?

Of course, it's also never stated that the Tyrell Corporation makes anything but human replicants. But I'm assuming that they do, if via a sub-division or owned company...

Astonishing Krokodyle! WOW!

No words....

But. Ok. Animals are not gone at all. But are rare and expensive (too expensive) and perhaps ilegal to use them for any kind of activites despite food. Maybe. Then, Taffy are using the worms in cocktails as a luxury, but the Rachael's judgement about thise kind of bar fuzzy me. Ever thinked about Taffy's bar as a underground place or whatever. The phone boot, plenty of grafitti is not so appropiate for the jet-set.

Well, anyway, I great appreciate all these comments! Mmm... I see and confirm that animal life in BR (the movie) is a very interesting subject to deep in!

Just thought I'd mention...the White Dragon still serves seafood.

Oceans are big.

With regard to animals: Many species seem to be extinct, from raptors (owls, hawks, eagles) to cows. (hence the prohibited calfskin wallet) In the absence of raptors, pigeons are undergoing a population explosion. Rats are also undergoing a population explosion, hence the critters we see in JF Sebastian's suite. Rats can survive repeated nuclear explosions that kill other animals: this was found out during live nuclear tests in the South Pacific.

Some critters are being farmed: I suspect that fish farming is a major industry on Earth. And certain types of meat, I suspect, would be produced by cloning. I have an idea that people buy cloned beef, pork, chicken, turkey and tuna by the centimeter off of rolls in a butcher shop. Certainly Tyrell Corporation would be diverse enough to be in businesses other than replicants. Tyrell Corporation is probably one of the main producers of these sheets of cloned meat. Animal skin, for leather and fur, could also be cloned this way. This is not a far-fetched idea, by the way: skin has been grown from single harvested cells (cloning!) in sheets for skin grafts for decades, and cloning meat is being looked at by NASA as a way of providing protein to astronauts in flight to Mars.

As far as eggs go...wasn't there a sketch for a device that creates fake eggs? A box with a stylized chicken on it? We never see it in Blade Runner but apparently the idea was that fake chicken eggs were created by combining protein paste and other things, right? You feed the box the ingredients, and after a few hours you get fake eggs.

I could be completely wrong, but I like these ideas. I like how loose the movie keeps things so that discussions like these can take place. We barely have scratched the surface of the world of Blade Runner, even with the 5-disc set and all its deletia.

All I had in front of me was the script, so I used that as a reference for my babbling. I'm absolutely sure that there are visual references to animal-derived food in the movie (signs, pictures, ads, etc.). But I think my boss would get angry if I had the film going at my workstation...

From my readings of DADoES, I am under the impression that real animals did exist. Albeit, few and rare. It was considered a status symbol to own one. Remember Deck saving for his ownership of status only to be upset later. There will always be real “creepy crawlys” around. When we are long gone, the cockroach will surpass us. If an apple is left to decay, the fly will inevitably lay its eggs. From these eggs, the larvae (worm/maggot) will emerge. This cycle will always continue. We are part of this cycle of life. These are low form “bottom feeders”. I do however think Spam will still be around.

Ok, I think this post is exhausted with the nice ideas and arguments exposed until now.

I'm very satisfied of all contributions to my idea of no animal life in the BR world (a idea that came to me in a flash, with no other consideration).

Many thanks to all of you!